Thread: Mozart Complete Piano Concertos Recommendations.

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Post by krisjan October 22, 2014 (11 of 20)
srl1 said:

Haydn, Mozart, and Beethoven wrote some fairly decent music using "toy pianos". ;)

And LvB wrote many of his masterpieces while deaf. So, your point is?

Post by krisjan October 22, 2014 (12 of 20)
Chris from Lafayette said:

krisjan - please be assured that it's not just you who finds the sound of toy pianos and vibratoless strings uncompelling! ;-)

Thanks for joining me on the island, Chris! You are MUCH better company than Wilson...

Post by srl1 October 22, 2014 (13 of 20)
krisjan said:

And LvB wrote many of his masterpieces while deaf. So, your point is?

The idea that these instruments are toys is a little over the top. I'm mainly trying to tweak Chris over his HIP phobia.

Also, Beethoven's aural memory was not of a concert grand.

Post by Simon V. October 22, 2014 (14 of 20)
The fortepiano is to the pianoforte as Islay whisky is to Speyside.

Post by steviev October 22, 2014 (15 of 20)
I warmly recommend the MDG Zacharias set, which is available only as individual discs. If you're willing to wait awhile, I'll bet MDG will reissue them in a budget boxed set just like they did with their complete Shostakovich symphonies. And, unlike BIS's habit, the boxed set is SACD, not mere RBCD.

Be aware that Zacharias has not recorded the concertos for two pianos, just the solo ones.

Post by wehecht October 22, 2014 (16 of 20)
Over the years I've acquired Mozart PC recordings by Bilson, Tan, Nicholson, Immerseel et al on fortepiano but have always preferred modern piano versions by Curzon, Uchida, Schiff, and Brendel. And as I indicated in an earlier post I'm happy with the Zacharias set even if individual performances don't eclipse those earlier versions. But regardless of my long standing preference for the modern piano dismissal of the Brautigam set as "toy piano" is simply wrongheaded. As his Haydn, Mozart, and Beethoven sonata cycles have demonstrated Mr Brautigam is a musician of exceptional technical and interpretive ability. I pulled out his recording of K466 for a listening session tonight and found it exhilarating.

Not liking "hip" is a matter of taste, but the pejoratives are unnecessary. You guys should rush out and buy the Pentatone reissue of Zukerman's Brandenburgs, he hates original instruments too.

Post by Chris from Lafayette October 23, 2014 (17 of 20)
wehecht said:

You guys should rush out and buy the Pentatone reissue of Zukerman's Brandenburgs, he hates original instruments too.

Thanks - I may just do that! In the meantime, for a hi-rez version of the Brandenburgs, Karl Munchinger's band still lives!

OK - maybe my "toy pianos" phrase was a bit over the top. And I must admit that some fortepianos do sound like strung rubber bands, rather than toy pianos. (Perhaps it's the Viennese action vs. the English action?)

Post by Simon V. October 23, 2014 (18 of 20)
14 & 21 out next month, so that's all the "major" ones now apart from 15 & 16.

Post by Adrian Cue October 27, 2014 (19 of 20)
Too fast or not too fast?

KV 566 final movement: Brautigam 6.49 vs Zacharias 7.53.

When I was young it could never be fast enough, but now that I have reached the age of discernment, I prefer the music more than the speed. This said, I must admit that tempi are often a matter of perception. For me, speed is acceptable if everything else is perfect. Speed is not acceptable if things get fuzzy; if speed equals haste; if one gets the feeling that the soloist is afraid to miss the last train home; leaving the players, rather than the listener, breathless.

In comparison with other ‘toy’ (smile not copied) players: Bilson (Decca) takes 7.35 and Schoonderwoerd (Accent) an amazing 8.13. Both are experts in the field of HIP.

Answering ClassicalDJ ‘s question of 22/10: (is there any performance on a modern piano that even approaches Brautigam's breathtaking tempo in the outer movements of the D minor (K466) concerto?) Yes there is: Richard Goode (Nonesuch, Orpheus Chamber Orchestra), on a modern grand, comes close (6.52) and does not sound hurried at all as everything else sounds just right. On the other hand, Argerich (DGG Abado, Orchestra Mozart), not exactly famous for her sluggish playing, takes 7.50, like Zacharias.

Two further points: One is the lack of ‘staying power’ of the fortepiano. It invites, as it were, a speedier sequence of notes in order to mask hiatuses. And two: what exactly is allegro assai? How different is it from allegro vivace assai? (final movement concerto KV 467). So close to one another Mozart must have wanted to indicate a difference in tempo.

According to experts: Allegro – fast, quickly, and bright (120–168 Beats Per Minute); Vivace – lively and fast (132–144 BPM); Assai – very much, as in allegro assai, quite fast. But isn’t it wonderful that the interpreter has the right to interpret?

As always: some like it this way and some prefer the other. In this particular case I can live with both, given the perfection of Brautigam and the refinement of Zacharias.

Post by ClassicalDJ October 27, 2014 (20 of 20)
Adrian Cue said:

Too fast or not too fast?

KV 566 final movement: Brautigam 6.49 vs Zacharias 7.53.

When I was young it could never be fast enough, but now that I have reached the age of discernment[...]

Answering ClassicalDJ ‘s question of 22/10: (is there any performance on a modern piano that even approaches Brautigam's breathtaking tempo in the outer movements of the D minor (K466) concerto?) Yes there is: Richard Goode (Nonesuch, Orpheus Chamber Orchestra), on a modern grand, comes close (6.52) and does not sound hurried at all as everything else sounds just right. On the other hand, Argerich (DGG Abado, Orchestra Mozart), not exactly famous for her sluggish playing, takes 7.50, like Zacharias.

Thank you for your response. I will be looking into these recordings. Perhaps my remarks do betray my age. :-)

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