Thread: Naxos disappointment

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Post by Luke October 30, 2014 (1 of 27)
At this time, I now own 4 Naxos BluRay 'surround' discs, as anyone can see when looking at my library, or so I hope you all can ;-)

Berlioz, Harold en Italie (recorded 2013)
Ravel, Orchestral Works 2 (recorded 2012)
Prokofiev, Symphony N°4 (recorded 2012)
Prokofiev, Symphony N°5, The year 1941 (recorded 2011)
I bought those because non existant on SACD Mch.

Honestly, I must say that I am rather disappointed of the sound quality. All 4 sound rather bland and distant. There is almost no difference with a stereo recording, although Naxos claims DSD 'surround'.

When I listen to my SACD Prokofiev 5th, on Telarc, conducted by Paavo Järvi for example, the sound opens up masterfully. What a difference!

Now, for comparison, I also listened to 4 Naxos SACD's that I own:
De Falla, El Sombrero de Tres Picos (recorded 2002)
Sibelius and Sinding, Violin Concerto (recorded 2003)
Grieg, Piano Concerto (recorded 2003)
They sound upfront, but more detailed and crisp, airy.
Vivaldi, Flute Concerti
More immerisive, utterly beautiful to my ears.

I have listened to them all, without changing anything to the volume or otherwise.

Anyone similar feelings?
Why does Naxos record this way and what could be their philosophy behind this? Their more than 10 years older recordings sound better.
Also, I only have a midrange system, suppose anyone can hear the difference?

And it's not that BluRay could not contain nice, crisp, clear open sound as a stated not long ago in an earlier thread.

Post by Chris from Lafayette October 30, 2014 (2 of 27)
Luke said:

At this time, I now own 4 Naxos BluRay 'surround' discs, as anyone can see when looking at my library, or so I hope you all can ;-)

Berlioz, Harold en Italie (recorded 2013)
Ravel, Orchestral Works 2 (recorded 2012)
Prokofiev, Symphony N°4 (recorded 2012)
Prokofiev, Symphony N°5, The year 1941 (recorded 2011)
I bought those because non existant on SACD Mch.

Honestly, I must say that I am rather disappointed of the sound quality.

Anyone similar feelings?

Hi, Luke - I have probably 80% of the Naxos blu-ray audio discs released so far, and my assessment of your situation is that you've just had bad luck with the particular titles/selections you've purchased.

First of all, those Slatkin/Orchestre National de Lyon recordings (at least the ones I've heard: Berlioz SF and Ravel vols 1 and 2) are recorded in a very dull manner, and Slatkin's performances are phlegmatic in the extreme! I decided not to purchase the Harold en Italie on your list because of the double whammy of blandness in what I'd already heard from the Slatkin/Lyon forces. (And this despite my support of babe musicians - and violist Lise Berthaud definitely qualifies!)

Second, every Marin Alsop recording I've ever heard reveals a conductor who has an amazing skill at draining the life out of anything she touches! I'm sorry Naxos chose her Prokofiev cycle as part of the blu-ray audio release series. I was so upset about Alsop's Dvorak performances with the Baltimore Symphony (despite the fine playing of this orchestra) on an earlier Naxos blu-ray that I posted about it on another site. I was very touched when a member of the orchestra posted this heartfelt response:

http://www.audioasylum.com/audio/music/messages/20/204453.html

At least the Baltimore recordings are well engineered - but sometimes, it's just the conductor who is responsible for the droopy impression that a particular recording may evoke in us.

But to end on a more positive note, I would recommend that you don't give up on the Naxos blu-ray audio discs, despite your experience so far. In particular, I would recommend the following:

Copland: Rodeo, etc (yes, with Slatkin - he's way better here and the engineering is outstanding IMHO)
Brahms: German Requiem (Wit/Warsaw)
Janacek: Sinfonietta, etc (Wit/Warsaw - there's a slight hum on a couple of tracks here however)
Mahler: Symphony No. 8 (Wit/Warsaw)
Mussorgsky-Breiner: Pictures, etc (Breiner/New Zealand - you MUST hear this - so over the top, it's absolutely fantastic!)
Verdi: Complete Ballet Music from the Operas (Serebrier/Bournemouth)

Good luck!

Post by rammiepie October 30, 2014 (3 of 27)
I have almost all of the Naxos BD~A titles and share the same disappointments but, when in doubt, revert to stereo playback employing the DSP mode on your pre/pro.........certainly sounds MUCH better, IMHO!

For MY money, Tacet and Sono Luminus are releasing some superb classical BD~A titles with far better sound immersion and show off the stellar sonic qualities of the BD~A format.

Post by pgmdir October 30, 2014 (4 of 27)
Chris from Lafayette said:
Wow, Chris, thanks for posting the orchestra member's comments on Alsop. I couldn't agree more based on her Barber recordings. I was beginning to wonder if it was just me...

Post by Chris from Lafayette October 30, 2014 (5 of 27)
rammiepie said:

I have almost all of the Naxos BD~A titles and share the same disappointments but, when in doubt, revert to stereo playback employing the DSP mode on your pre/pro.........certainly sounds MUCH better, IMHO!

For MY money, Tacet and Sono Luminus are releasing some superb classical BD~A titles with far better sound immersion and show off the stellar sonic qualities of the BD~A format.

Hi, Ralph - Of course Naxos doesn't seem to be interested in the immersive experience of putting the listener in the middle of the musicians, and I'm fine with that. In fact, I'm against the idea in principle, but Tacet and 2L do it so well that I've been won over despite my a priori concerns. (I haven't heard an immersive recording on Sono Luminus yet - only the duoW "Entendre" album, which is great!) BTW, do you have that Tacet DVD-Audio of Koroliov playing the Debussy Preludes, where the piano keyboard is surrounding you 270 degrees? That's certainly a trip!

Post by Chris from Lafayette October 30, 2014 (6 of 27)
pgmdir said:

Wow, Chris, thanks for posting the orchestra member's comments on Alsop. I couldn't agree more based on her Barber recordings. I was beginning to wonder if it was just me...

Hi, Bill - yes, that was quite a revelation!

Post by Ubertrout October 30, 2014 (7 of 27)
Chris, that was really interesting. I'm concerned that it does seem to follow certain tropes about female conductors (joyless, lacking in musicality, overly technical and dry, and hard driving and unpleasant), but the proof is in the pudding, and the pudding Alsop has served is tends to be rather bland. One wonders if Temirkanov was thinking of Alsop when he made those comments about female conductors that got him in trouble.

With Slatkin it's a fascinating case...he's done great work with American composers, most notably Copland. He's also done wonderful stuff with recordings like Mahler: Symphony No. 2 - Slatkin. But he's seriously inconsistent outside of his comfort zone.

Post by fredblue October 30, 2014 (8 of 27)
Chris from Lafayette said:

Hi, Ralph - Of course Naxos doesn't seem to be interested in the immersive experience of putting the listener in the middle of the musicians, and I'm fine with that. In fact, I'm against the idea in principle, but Tacet and 2L do it so well that I've been won over despite my a priori concerns. (I haven't heard an immersive recording on Sono Luminus yet - only the duoW "Entendre" album, which is great!) BTW, do you have that Tacet DVD-Audio of Koroliov playing the Debussy Preludes, where the piano keyboard is surrounding you 270 degrees? That's certainly a trip!

I really enjoyed this Sono Luminus Los Angeles Percussion Quartet BDA and found the surround mix quite immersive, fwiw.

http://www.sonoluminus.com/p-343-rupa-khandha-blu-ray-cd.aspx

Post by rammiepie October 30, 2014 (9 of 27)
fredblue said:

I really enjoyed this Sono Luminus Los Angeles Percussion Quartet BDA and found the surround mix quite immersive, fwiw.

http://www.sonoluminus.com/p-343-rupa-khandha-blu-ray-cd.aspx

Adam, they also released a second album: The Year Before Yesterday which I just ordered from AmazonUS ($15 delivered). Just type in Sono Luminus on AmazonUK and it will pop up.

A GREAT year for 5.1 junkies, wouldn't you say?

BTW, Mr B, when is that secret of yours going to be unleashed?

And Adam, is it fact or rumour that Bowie's catalogue is being remixed into 5.1?

Post by Chris from Lafayette October 30, 2014 (10 of 27)
Ubertrout said:

Chris, that was really interesting. I'm concerned that it does seem to follow certain tropes about female conductors (joyless, lacking in musicality, overly technical and dry, and hard driving and unpleasant), but the proof is in the pudding, and the pudding Alsop has served is tends to be rather bland. One wonders if Temirkanov was thinking of Alsop when he made those comments about female conductors that got him in trouble.

I have nothing against female conductors. (I worked with Antonia Brico for just a little bit when she visited SF decades ago - she was a wonderful lady.) I guess my favorite female conductor right now is Anu Tali from Estonia, based on the two CD's of hers that I have. She's a lot easier on the eyes than Alsop is too. ;-)

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