Thread: New Verve reissues from Analogue Productions dates set

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Post by Claude May 18, 2011 (11 of 19)
Espen R said:

Both "Way Out West" and "Art Pepper Meets the Rhytm Section" outperforms the SACDs from Analogue Productions by a wide margin, even they sourced from Japanese tapes. IMO.
It's what it sounds in the end, that counts ;)

The 45rpm LPs of these titles - mastered by Steve Hoffman and Kevin Gray - also sound a lot better than the AP SACDs.

The choice of tapes may not be the only reason. For the AP SACDs, Doug Sax decided to add artificial reverb (as it was present on the original LPs), which is completely unnecessary IMO.


About the Verve SACDs: I'm not excited at all about these titles, which have been reissued so many times already. At least, unlike the SHM-SACDs the AP SACD can be found for "little" money (less than $25) if one is patient enough to see them appear on the Amazon Marketplace (usually several weeks after the first release).

Post by audioholik June 3, 2011 (12 of 19)
Deribas said:

Looking at the Acoustic Sounds website, it appears that We get Requests will be stereo-only, despite the availability of three-track master. Pity.

The now updated AS website says 'Hybrid Multichannel SACD'

Post by rammiepie June 3, 2011 (13 of 19)
audioholik said:

The now updated AS website says 'Hybrid Multichannel SACD'

Good news, indeed. Should become THE definitive version. Also noticed as a pre~order from AP: Satchmo Plays King Oliver (Stereo hybrid SACD) from Audiofidelity. Tea For The Tillerman is also announced for June 14th as a Stereo hybrid SACD.

Things ARE happening!

Post by Claude August 28, 2014 (14 of 19)
I've noticed only now that Acoustic Sounds has added mastering info concerning those of the Verve reissues mastered by the late George Marino, i.e. most of the titles.

"Mastered by George Marino at Sterling Sound from the original master tapes to vinyl and PCM. The DSD was sourced from the PCM. George listened to all of the different A/D converters he had before he chose which to use, and he felt the George Massenburg GML 20 bit A/D produced the best and most synergistic sound for the project."

So that glorious "analogue" sound you are hearing from SACD actually involved a 20bit/48kHz PCM step (apparently the GML ADC is limited to 48kHz)

What is bizarre though is that Acoustic Sounds is now also selling these albums as DSD downloads and 24/96 and 24/192 PCM downloads, when the more logical option would have been 20/48 PCM downloads (or better 24/48, as some devices may have problems with 20bit files)

Post by Astral August 28, 2014 (15 of 19)
This is incorrect. The 24/96 and 24/192 downloads Acoustic Sounds is offering are the same Verve transfers available on HD Tracks, HiResAudio and elsewhere and are unrelated to the PCM sourced Marino DSD downloads also on Acoustic Sounds.

But to add to the confusion, I have been seeing with alarming frequency that Acoustic Sounds are not averse to taking a label supplied hi-res PCM transfer and converting it to DSD to offer as a DSD download.

IMO, always look for the original transfer medium whether PCM or DSD.

BTW, IMO the Verve hi-res PCM pound for pound sounds much superior to the mid-res Marino DSD. In some cases - Getz/Gilberto, for example - massively superior.

Post by Claude August 28, 2014 (16 of 19)
Thanks for the correction concerning the PCM downloads.

I find the mastering of the Verve SACDs to be the best available. The voices and horns sound much more natural than on previous CD and SACD reissues, which tend to have a boosted upper treble.

Post by SteelyTom August 29, 2014 (17 of 19)
Astral said:

BTW, IMO the Verve hi-res PCM pound for pound sounds much superior to the mid-res Marino DSD. In some cases - Getz/Gilberto, for example - massively superior.

There'll never be consensus about Getz/Gilberto reissues, apparently. Didn't the Marino version correct the improperly-switched channels of earlier reissues? Has Universal carried that correction forward in subsequent ones?

Post by Astral August 29, 2014 (18 of 19)
The channel issue had been previously corrected in reissues, about 10 years ago, so Marino was far from the first. I have the Marino, I bought it before I learned that it was PCM sourced, which I found to be deceptive. Without knowing it was PCM sourced, I have to say my impression was that it is nice, a bit fat sounding as if he was trying to emulate the old DCC sound i.e. big, warm, rolled off - but it clearly did not have the transparency, depth, dimensionality of good hi-res. To be blunt, it sounded to me like a good CD.

I agree, on a seminal title like Getz/Gilberto there will never be consensus, which is fine. Prior to the recent Verve 24/192, I actually was very fond (still am) of the Japanese Seigen Ono mastering.

To be even more direct and perhaps provocative, I have been very unimpressed with AP SACD issues generally up until the recent Prestige series remastered in true DSD by Kevin Grey. These sound fabulous. The AP Blue Notes are an utter disaster, the Verve a missed opportunity both is sound and title selection, the Impulse series was pretty good sounding, the Living Stereo series uninspiring from a title selection perspective and in truth hard to consider a big sonic upgrade from the existing BMG SACD's.

Post by SteelyTom August 29, 2014 (19 of 19)
Seigen Ono and Kevin Grey are both outstanding engineers. I've found myself grossly overpaying via Japan for Ono's redbook versions of classic bossa nova and MPB albums.

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